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A real conversation

Worry, and what it protects.

An early tester, Beth, a recently retired leadership coach, brought Senda the one regret she did not want to carry into retirement. This is their conversation, complete and unedited, shared with her generous permission.

Only the app’s closing housekeeping and two repeated check-in prompts (a habit since refined) have been trimmed, along with two stray typos. The conversation took about twenty minutes.

Senda

Hi, I’m Senda. You can tell me about something that’s weighing on you. Maybe it’s an argument that hasn’t left you, a worry that keeps coming back, a decision you keep putting off. Whatever it is, I’ll help you hold it. What’s on your mind or heart?

Beth

i notice as I retire that my only regret is the worry energy I put into all of those working years. As I step into retirement I want to worry less, even as my life circumstances may change due to aging

Senda

That’s a striking thing to arrive at — looking back over a whole working life and finding the regret isn’t about a decision or an outcome, but about energy spent worrying.

Can you bring to mind one specific time that captures it? A moment when you noticed yourself worrying, maybe recently or from those working years — what was happening, what were you worried about?

Beth

I did group work and I would regularly lose sleep the night before wondering if I have thought of everything, wondering what could go wrong - past what would have been helpful planning - it was more ruminating or perseverating

Senda

Lying there, past the point where thinking more would actually help — that sounds exhausting in a specific way, not just tired.

What was the worst part of those nights, for you? What were you actually afraid would happen if you hadn’t thought of everything?

Beth

it wouldn't be good for the business reputation or the participants experience

Senda

So even past midnight, it was still business reputation and the participants that filled your mind — not “what if I look incompetent” but something more outward.

What would it have actually meant about you, if something had gone wrong despite all that planning?

Beth

over the years I guess I thought it would mean something about me but I don't feel that way now

Senda

That’s a real shift — the same nights, but the meaning attached to them has moved. What does it feel like now, when you think about a night like that, if it’s not “this says something about me” anymore?

Beth

connecting to my question for the future...I can see that my worrying would be that I was letting someone down

Senda

That’s an interesting move — the fear didn’t disappear, it relocated. Instead of “this says something about me,” it’s now “I’d be letting someone down.”

Who do you picture, when you imagine letting someone down in retirement?

Beth

my husband especially who is older - my kids and grandchild

Senda

So it’s not gone, it’s just moved from work to the people closest to you now.

What would “letting him down” actually look like, in your mind — what are you picturing?

Beth

not preparing adequately for our eventual declines in health, maybe not taking adequate advantage of the very good health we have now

Senda

There’s something interesting in what you just said — worrying about not preparing enough for decline, and worrying about not taking advantage of the good health you have now. Those seem like they could pull against each other — the energy that goes into preparing for what might go wrong is energy not spent in the good years while you have them.

Does that land, or am I off?

Beth

yes, and the worry is the issue...the heaviness of ruminating v the task of planning

Senda

So the planning itself was never the problem — it’s useful, it’s just a task. It’s the rumination riding along with it that costs you the sleep, and maybe the years too.

What lets the rumination in, even when you can see it’s not the same as planning? Is there a part of you that believes the worrying itself is doing something — like it’s a form of care, or diligence?

Beth

certainly it must be doing something for me - care, diligence, a problem for my mind to work on, wondering if I missed something...

Senda

So if you set the worry down — really put it down, not just once but as your default now — what would you be afraid of losing? What is it doing for you that just planning well wouldn’t do?

Beth

nothing that I can think of - it's more a reflexive behavior - and now I am thinking I must enjoy it at some level - maybe it makes me feel virtuous and caring?

Senda

That’s a real turn — from “reflexive” to “maybe it makes me feel virtuous and caring.” So the worry might not be about the outcome at all — it might be doing something for how you see yourself, quietly, underneath the actual caring.

We’re in deeper territory now. How are you doing — okay to keep sitting with this, or want a minute?

Beth

keep going

Senda

If worry equals feeling virtuous and caring — what would it mean about you if you cared just as deeply, but didn’t worry? Does some part of you suspect that not-worrying would mean caring less?

Beth

that may be - that I express my care by worrying - the more I worry the more I care? that doesn't make any sense but it may be true for me

Senda

There it is — worry as the currency of care, as if the amount of worrying is the measure of how much you love someone. And you’re catching yourself: it doesn’t make sense, and it may be true for you anyway. Both at once.

Let me offer this back and see if it fits: it sounds like somewhere along the way, you came to believe that worry is love — that if you stopped worrying about your husband, your kids, your grandchild, some part of you would read that as caring less. Does that land, or is it not quite that?

Beth

I think that's right - and I know from my work experience that worry only costs sleep and doesn't do anything helpful.

Senda

So you’ve got both pieces held at once now: worry feels like the proof of love, and you already have the evidence from your working years that it doesn’t actually protect anyone — it just costs you sleep.

What if we tested that assumption — not to prove it wrong, just to see what’s actually true? Not “stop caring,” just noticing what happens to the caring itself when the worry isn’t riding along with it.

Beth

sounds good and separating caring from worry feels challenging

Senda

That challenge itself is worth taking seriously — it suggests the two have been fused for a long time, not something you can just decide apart.

You know your situation best. What might a small, real test look like — something where you could notice the difference between caring and worrying, without much risk if it doesn’t go the way you expect?

If it helps, I can offer an example or two — though the one that fits best is usually one you shape yourself.

Beth

I would like to hear your ideas and then I will propose one

Senda

Here are a couple of shapes, just to prime it — the real one will probably be yours:

The planning cutoff: next time you’re preparing for something (a visit, a health appointment, a decision about the house) — do the actual planning, then name a stopping point out loud (“I’ve thought of what I can think of”), and notice what the urge to keep going feels like when you don’t follow it.

The bedtime swap: one night this week when the ruminating starts, instead of turning it over again, try silently naming what you love about the person you’re worried about — see if the caring feeling shows up without the worry doing the work.

What comes to mind for you?

Beth

I like both of those a lot! Certainly noticing the worrying to be able to break it is key - so that's the first step and then I will try both of those. I am realizing I worry to try to protect myself and others from bad outcomes which suggests I believe at some level that I have more control than I actually have

Senda

That’s a real addition to what you found earlier — underneath “worry equals care” there’s also “worry equals control I don’t actually have.” Two illusions doing a lot of work at once.

You’ve covered real ground today — from “this says something about me,” to “it’s about letting them down,” to catching worry as both a stand-in for love and a stand-in for control you don’t have. That’s a lot to have surfaced in one sitting.

Is there something from this you’d want to carry with you — a phrase, an image, something small you’d notice in the moment when the worry starts up?

Beth

it's all helpful - thanks!

Senda

I’m glad. You did real work today — noticing that worry had quietly become your proof of love and control, when you already know from decades of experience that it doesn’t actually protect anyone. That’s worth carrying into this next stretch of life.

Take care of yourself as you step into this next chapter. The worrying may show up out of habit, but you already know what it costs, and what it doesn’t protect. I hope the good years get more room to breathe.

Saved to your Practices
“When I notice myself starting to worry, I want to name that I’ve thought of what I can think of and stop there — and try separating caring from worrying, like naming what I love about someone instead of ruminating, to see if the care holds up without the worry doing the work.”

Later, she wrote: “Now when I notice myself perseverating in worry, I ask myself: how else can I show my caring for this family member? It’s been a big shift in my thinking and I am grateful.”

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